Questions I've Been Pondering (with REVISED Wording)

[mlerules]

(1) What's the difference between and similarities among and where's the overlap vis-a-vis pagan(ism) and wicca(n)(ism)?

(2) What does "queer" mean and not mean and imply and infer and why?

Any and all (respectful) tips/thoughts welcome in my quest for spiritual/intellectual ghee...

Comments

Re: IMHO

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated. Re: "queer" label - yeah, I totally grok where you're coming from (and expected such a response from you based on prior communications/discussions). Should be interested to hear what folks who do choose to use this label (for themselves and/or others and/or in the context of identity politics and/or elsewhere) have to say about it so I can get a better idea of what they're saying and have at least have a clue what folks (might) mean when they use the term.

[crboltz.livejournal.com]

1) I know these two aren't synonyms, but I don't know enough about the differences to identify one from the other.

2) Queer to me, means different or outside the mainstreeam. While I might have a sexuality outsife of the majority, I don't consider myself queer because my life looks pretty much like much of America's except that I am in love with a guy not a girl. I know some "goth" kids who identify as queer, even though they are hetrosexual an dhappy in their gender identity. Queer often carries notions of non-hetrosexual, and non-umm-happy-their-biological/apparent/dominant-gender, and I think that is unforunate. Queer almost always sets up an us vs. them attitude that is such a bad start to any communication.

OK, I'm sleepy....night night

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thx for your thoughts - 'preciated. Sweet dreams.

[twistedcat.livejournal.com]

pagan is just non judeo-xian-muslim (and non buddhist/hindi, for the most part, although there is *some* overlap), which includes wicca, shamanism, earth magick, high magick (although hm is generally judeo-xian based), neo-greco, etc etc etc

within the overlying umbrella of "pagan" is a subset of "earth magic" under which wicca can be further classified

if you can be clearer in you q I can be clearer w/an answer... :-)

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

For now I'm just grasping at straws, understanding-wise. Hoping to have some sort of clearer view in the future so can pose clearer questions in order to gain further clarification.

[twistedcat.livejournal.com]

mayhaps this will help

wicca is to pagan
as
methodist is to christian

kinda, anyway...

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thx for this (and the earlier comment), as it helps me align my understanding.

[princekermit.livejournal.com]

First up: correct usage should be "vis-a-vis paganism and Wicca"

(1)I am loathe to attempt at defining Paganism, simply because it is far too broad of a category. According to some Christians, there are denominations of Christianity that count as Pagan. Even modifiers such as non-patriarchal (Asatru) and non-monotheistic (Dianic) have exceptions (as noted parenthetically). Sadly, in short, I feel that defining Paganism boils down to the rubric of "what I'm doing is prayer, what you're doing is black magic."

As to Wicca, that is a wee more definable. Wicca is an attempted re-creation of European pre-Christian mythology blended with more recent mystical traditions such as the Golden Dawn and the Ordo Templi Orientis. Wicca was synthesized by Gerald Gardner in the late 1940s-early 1950s and was originally a set form of practices. However, widespread dissemination in the 60s and 70s led to a diffusion of beliefs and practices.

Briefly, all Wiccans are pagan, but not all pagans are Wiccan.

(2) I've always taken "queer" to simply mean out of the ordinary. However, this Webster doesn't count in the bigger world, where "queer" has come to imply homosexuality.

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for the explication. I'd more than half-hoped to get a response from you as I figured (correctly) it'd be concise and helpful, which 'tis.

[princekermit.livejournal.com]

*tips hat*

My pleasure, dear. Always glad to help (and it helps me, too. I'm always looking for new and better ways to explain it to people of varying levels of acceptance. For you, you get blunt and straightforward. Others get increasing levels of flower and couch.)

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Wise man to realize that the message must be tailored to the audience to increase its chances of acceptance. (I could make some rude comment about extra lube being needed by some to help ease open their minds, but I shan't.)

[fiddledragon]

I was going to respond to #1, but princekermit summed it up in what I would consider the best possible way.

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thx for the seconding of his response - makes sense to me, too.

[quetz.livejournal.com]

Wicca is a part of paganism, like a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square.

Queer:

queer /kwɪər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kweer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -er, -est, verb, noun
–adjective 1. strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice.
2. of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away.
3. not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer.
4. mentally unbalanced or deranged.
5. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a. homosexual.
b. effeminate; unmanly.

6. Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit.
–verb (used with object) 7. to spoil; ruin.
8. to put (a person) in a hopeless or disadvantageous situation as to success, favor, etc.
9. to jeopardize.
–noun 10. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual.
11. Slang. counterfeit money.
—Idiom12. queer the pitch, British Informal. to spoil the chances of success.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1500–10; perh. < G quer oblique, cross, adverse]

—Related forms
queerly, adverb
queerness, noun


—Synonyms 1. unconventional, curious, freakish, eccentric, weird. See strange.
—Antonyms 1. ordinary.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much for your input.

Re: "queer" - I've heard it used almost as if empowering, as descriptive in a positive way, as if folks're reclaiming the term with pride...that's more the usage I was after...not just the meaning of the word but how and why it's become more than just the dictionary definition.

[quetz.livejournal.com]

If you mean the "WE'RE HERE AND WE'RE QUEER" crowd, they use it as a synonym for homosexuality, and often look down on others who are merely weird.

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

I NEED to get one of those Keep Portland Weird bumperstickers and stick it on upside down...

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Thx for your input - appreciated quite a bit.

[sidhefire.livejournal.com]

Wow... you don't ask simple questions... *grins*
I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning to be able to articulate my thoughts... I'm going to have to come back to this one.

[vismaya-viewer.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm in the 'need more coffee to answer this question' category as well, though to put it simply, I usually say Paganism is to Wicca what Christianity is to Catholicism; one is a broad umbrella while the other is more structured.

[anansi133.livejournal.com]

The classic definition of 'pagan' is anything not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. Since then, you get to not-be-pagan if you belong to any religion that an entire nation gets behind. Communists are not pagan, nor are Buddhists or Hindus.

Wiccan is supposedly a very specific sect of pagan, there are many more Pagans than Wiccans. You got your Druids, your Gardnarians, and any number of flavor of new-agey neopagans. But unless yopu want to step on some toes, if someone says they're wiccan, you gotta take their word for it.

Beyond that, it's kind of like the difference/similarirty between a swinger and a poly person: endless shades of meaning, and plenty for people to get feathers ruffled, which makes no sense from the outside.

2) In the sexual context, "Queer" means any kind of sexual outlaw. Some people take that to mean using whatever gendered bathroom is open in the moment. Or you get to be queer if you've a strong affinity for other queer people. Queer is the new straight-everyne wants to be it.

[mlerules.livejournal.com]

Queer is the new straight-everyne wants to be it.

LOL! Thx for your insights - fascinating as always. :-)

Still wanting to see Across the Universe, by the way...